Sara Hall, Terrence Mahon, Deena Kastor at 2007 Men's Marathon Trials in New York. Photo by PhotoRun.net
Since 2005, Terrence Mahon has been the head coach at the Mammoth Track Club in Mammoth Lakes, California, home to a number of key contenders in the Olympic Marathon Trials.
Mahon, 41, has walked, er, raced the talk, being himself a three-time Marathon Trials qualifier with a marathon PR of 2:13:02. While in college at Villanova, Mahon achieved All-American status eight times in cross-country, indoor track, or outdoor track. Until 18 months ago, he was coach of marathon star Ryan Hall. Now his best-known runner is Deena Kastor, who will be aiming for her third consecutive U.S. Olympic Marathon Team (and fourth total) in Houston on Jan. 14. Mahon took over the reins at Mammoth Track Club from the legendary Joe Vigil, and continues to list Vigil as one of his major influences. He's not afraid to look at other systems, however, and enjoys tinkering with training programs, and adjusting them for each individual. An English/philosophy major in college, Mahon shares Vigil's belief that the spirit of the runner is a major factor in athletic success. His wife, Jen Rhines, has been on the last three U.S. Olympic Teams in three different events (10,000; marathon; 5000) and will also be running the Marathon Trials in Houston.
Four years ago, you coached both Marathon Trials winners, Ryan and Deena. Last year Ryan left to direct his own training. He was as close as we've got to a rock star in the marathon. So is Mammoth Lakes a bit quieter this time around? Terrence Mahon: No, I'd say it's pretty much the same. We still get a lot of media requests for our other athletes. We do the same things we've done before. Life is good.
What did you think of Ryan's marathon performances this year? TM: Pretty solid. He had a great run at Boston. We knew it was going to be great. Ever since the first year he ran Boston, when he realized he liked the course, he had been talking about eventually catching a tailwind one of these years. This year he got it. Chicago was good, because running in the heat is not his strong suit, just as it isn't for most marathoners his size versus the smaller runners. So his finish was solid again.
At the last Marathon Trials, Ryan made a big break and ran alone most of the last half. Whereas Deena ran a slow-but-steady conservative race. How does one coach have two runners who race so differently? TM: It's a matter of knowing your athletes, their strengths and their fitness. Deena had a bad experience at the 2004 Trials when she ran too aggressively early, and burned too much energy. At the Boston Trials, we planned for her to run a strong second half, and she did a great job executing the plan. With Ryan, we knew he was fit and liked to lead. We just didn't want him to lead from the start. We told him it was okay to go to the lead but only at a point in the race where he felt comfortable that he could hold the lead to the finish.
In both cases, it was helpful that the events were on lap courses where we could see and monitor the athletes. With Deena we were mainly giving her feedback on what was happening up front. With Ryan, when we saw him at 16 miles, we gave him the green light to go all-in because he and his body language looked so good.
Deena has made the last two Olympic Marathon teams, but she's not getting any younger and she's had her problems since the foot fracture DNF in Beijing. Most people don't have her on their top-3 form chart. Can she do it again? TM: I think one thing that's a huge factor is that her best marathon [the American record 2:19:36 in 2006] puts her three minutes ahead of anyone else's best time. That's a big advantage psychologically. If the other runner go into new territory for them--say 2:23/2:24 pace--that's somewhere that Deena has been many times. It's okay that she's not in 2:19 shape for the Trials. That's not necessary. If she has to run 2:24, that's not unachievable.
This is a Championships race without pacers and lots of world-class runners. You have to know how to race and react in those situations. Deena knows. Fitness-wise, she'll be ready to go. All our athletes are ready to go. She hasn't run marathons lately, so we've addressed that in practice. She has done more longer runs. Having Amy Hastings along has helped her a lot--it's helped her come back quickly. Deena's the American record holder. She's got an Olympic medal. I'm not saying she's in 5K or 10K track shape. But anyone who's counting her out isn't very smart.
So let's talk about Amy. She has an impressive record. But with only one marathon, how confident are you that she is in fact a quality marathoner? TM: I'm pretty confident. In my opinion, one way you gauge this is how an athlete attacks their workouts. What workouts get them most excited? Amy gets amped up any time we run long and hard. She always brings her A game to those workouts. Deena helps Amy's training because Deena brings her experience and patience to the long hard runs, the long tempos, the days with eight miles of intervals. Deena knows where the line is--where you have to temper your enthusiasm.
So will Deena and Amy race together in Houston? TM: We don't know yet. It will depend somewhat on the kind of race that develops. They're worked well together in training, and I think it would be to their advantage to work together in the Trials. They've had similar half-marathon times this year. They could certainly feed off each other and help each other in the early miles. Shalane's on fire, so we'll have to see what develops on race day. You always have to remember that this is a race that is 26 miles long.
I'm sure you discuss many race scenarios with your athletes, and what they should do. Here's one. Shalane gets antsy and takes off at 10 miles? What do Deena and Amy do? TM: Well that obviously depends very much on the pace, whether it's Shalane or someone else who goes early. We gauge this situation by the athlete's fitness and the extra calories she would burn by picking up the pace. When you go too fast, you can chew up calories quickly. If someone goes at 10 miles, you have to remember again that this is a long race, and there are still 90 minutes of running to go.
In my opinion, Shalane and Desi are smart enough that they're not going to go at 10 miles. Shalane is not a loose cannon. She knows how to produce her optimal performance on race day. This is not a day when someone's going to run 2:21-2:22 even if they're fit enough to do that. Everyone's number one job on Jan. 14 is to get a place on the podium. Job two is to place as high as possible. If Deena and Amy finish second and third on Jan. 14, I've got no problem with that, and neither do they.
You've got this other talented qualifier, your wife Jen Rhines, who made the Olympic Marathon Team in 2004 when she finished third in the Trials. What's her plan? TM: She's running. She's got different motivation than the other two. We trained her to run New York in November off her track season, but I don't think we timed it right. She didn't adapt quickly enough. [Rhines was a DNF at New York.] She wanted to give it another try, and I thought, "Okay, let's run the Marathon Trials." Her primary goal is still to run on the track in London. She's not going to race as aggressively as the other two. But if she runs smart and makes the Olympic Team, great. If she gets close to the third-place runner in the last six miles, that's not going to be good for the woman in third. But for Jen it's not an all-or-nothing situation the way it is for Deena.
What's your opinion on those Boston performances last April? Do you consider the top runners there as fast as their times indicate, or a couple of minutes slower? TM: I think there are two factors you have to consider when you look at the Boston times. First, there's the neuromuscular, and of course the athletes definitely had to move their legs fast enough to produce those times. Then there's the aerobic question. With the wind and the downhill course, the athletes probably didn't have to push their heart rates as high as you would expect for 2:03s and 2:22s. Psychologically I think it's great for a runner to be able to think, "My body is capable of those times. Maybe I just have to work a little harder to produce them on a flat course."
I don't think you can say that Boston was two minutes fast, and add that as a constant across the board. Some runners perform better with a tailwind and down hills than others.
Most running "experts" see Shalane Flanagan, Desi Davila, Kara Goucher, and Magdalena Boulet as the favorites, with maybe Deena and Amy on the cusp. Would you add anyone to that list? TM: Off her great running last fall, I think you have to include Janet Cherobon-Bawcom. A lot will depend on how the race goes. If it's a slow-paced race, like 2:28 to 2:30 pace, then the door opens for more people, and you could see 10 or 12 women in the hunt at halfway. If it goes out at 2:24 to 2:26 pace, then that number gets reduced by 50 percent.
It seems that U.S. women's marathoning has changed and improved more in the last four years than men's marathoning, which looks quite static. Is there a reason for that? TM: Yes. With the women now, the best marathoners are also the best 5K runners. Shalane, Amy, Kara, Desi, Magda, they can all run in the low 15s, or under, for 5000. They're also fast in the 10K and half-marathon. They're not so much marathon specialists as they are fast runners who also run the marathon. Whereas most of the male marathoners are road specialists. Dathan's the only one who's a quick 5K runner like the women. That makes the men's race a little more predictable. The favorites aren't going to wait until the final miles to make their move. They'll want to get away before the end of the race.
Races & Places. TM: I think it's because our male 5000 meter racers right now are world-class. In any international race, they're in the hunt for a medal. That's not true of our best women, even though Kara and Shalane have won medals in the World Champs and Olympics recently. But our top women's 5000-meter runners like Molly Huddle aren't at the same level as the Ethiopians and Kenyans in the last two laps. If our athletes can't get down to 14:30 or better, they're not in medal territory. Whereas our women marathoners have shown that they have a better chance for a medal, so that's where the top women are headed.
You've coaching Patrick Smyth for the men's Trials. He hasn't finished a marathon yet. [Smyth qualified with a 1:02:01 half marathon at Houston in 2010, and ran 1:02:32 in Houston last January, behind Mo Trafeh and Ryan Hall.] Will he be ready for the Trials? TM: Last April in London Patrick made the typical rookie mistake: He went out too fast and dug himself a big hole early. He was on 2:08 pace at halfway, and then he dropped out at 30K. Patrick's definitely a 2:10 runner. In London, he just didn't execute the way he should have. The Trials race should set up better for him. There are only one or two guys capable of going sub-2:10. The rhythm of the pack behind the winners should be well suited to Patrick. He recently did a paced 1:05 in the Las Vegas half during a big week of training, and then we've done a fast-finish 26-mile training run since then. He'll be ready to go.
The 2025 Marathon and Half Marathon Calendar? TM: Ryan and Meb. You have to remember that this isn't a paced race, and I don't see anyone running their lights out in the first half. It's likely to just build up slowly, with a 65 or 66 for the first half. From there, you've got to come back with a 63 or 64 to run sub-2:10. Not a lot of people can do that. Ritz has the ability of course, but he's had energy issues in his other marathons, and we don't know how far his fitness has come back from his injuries for much of 2011. In the Trials, it's the smart, experienced runner who often nabs the open spot. Look at Brian Sell in 2008. He probably didn't break 65 for the second half, but he had the experience to do what had to be done to move into third.
And then you've got Josh Cox running his fourth Marathon Trials. I think it's great that Josh is so focused on the Trials, but you've got to wonder what the point is. TM: Josh is one of the smartest U.S. distance runners out there, and just loves to run and race. He has his whole career. He's also one of the smartest business guys in running. He understands how to keep his fans and his sponsors happy, how to sell the sport to the public. He makes that part of his job. I guarantee there are more people in this country who know who Josh Cox is than know Dathan Ritzenhein. He's a great guy, everyone on the team loves him, and he's still running PRs.
Josh is also one of the most realistic guys out there. One of the tough things I have to do in my job is talking to young runners. I might ask them: What are your goals? And they often say something like "I want to win a gold medal in the Olympic 10,000." But the thing is, they have no concept of what that means, and what it would take to accomplish a goal like that. Josh knows what's realistic, and what it takes commitment-wise. I think he can run a sub-2:12 in Houston, and that's the big reason why he's running the Trials again.
Has marathon training changed in the last four to six years? TM: Sure. Now marathon's are raced pretty much like a 10K. Sammy Wanjiru made everyone change with his performance in Beijing. He forced us to change all our old, strongly-held beliefs about what marathoners could do and not do. It's time to throw out the old book and the old formulas. Since Beijing, we've seen how marathoning has evolved, and the training has to change with the performances. It's simply what you have to do now.
I've sensed a trend of athletes doing shorter buildups to their marathons now. Everyone used to think they needed 16 or 20 or 24 weeks. Now I hear people talking about eight and 12 weeks. Any thoughts? TM: Well, I think it's an individual thing. If you're doing big volume, then, yes, maybe the long programs are too long. If you start off with a lot of volume for four, six, or eight weeks, you're hitting the top of your aerobic development. After that, you're just getting more tired, not more fit. So instead you need to figure out what works best for you and for the event distance. I do believe that older athletes might perform better with shorter programs. Otherwise, they're putting too much wear-and-tear on their bodies.
How about the taper period? Researchers tend to believe in long tapers for marathoners. But the runners themselves often don't like long or big tapers. TM: Again, that's very individual. And there are many systems to consider: muscles, nervous system, endocrine system. I like to look at training density [number of workouts], weekly mileage, and intensity. Then we often reduce one of the three, but not two. That's when the athletes start feeling stale. But which one you reduce the most depends on the athlete. With some, the high mileage is their toughest piece, so you reduce that. Others find the speed work toughest, so you taper more in that area.
You'd better be in damn good shape for the interval workout you're going to get in Houston following two races at once. What's your personal race-day plan? TM: Can do. I ran 74 minutes in the Las Vegas Half this month. I'm ready. The hardest part of the day will be the two starts, since I want to be there for my athletes in both starts. After that, I'll get to some point in the middle of the loop, and run back and forth to catch both races on both sides of the loop. I typically miss the finishes. I'll make a mad dash for the finish at some point, but I probably won't make it ahead of the runners.
CA Notice at Collection? TM: I'm usually just giving them their race-day cues and reminders. And maybe some info on what's going on ahead of them, or behind. It's important to make sure they aren't out too fast the first loop, or too soon at any point. I try to encourage them and also let them know what's going on in the race. Different people like different things. With Amy Hastings, I might have a little crazy stuff to tell her to keep her mind off the pain.
